okay, wait.
Jun. 5th, 2011 12:17 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
beingfacetiousThis is not a real reaction post.
The thing is, you guys, I really really freaking loved this episode. Like...you guys. Amy was a real character, she was almost s5 Amy, I loved her so much. And Rory continues to be a perfect husband and a perfect character. I just...guys I can't, I just love him so much. Everything he did in this episode was flawless to me. And Eleven was practically Ten, so obviously I was loving that. And it was epic and beautiful and really I think some of the Moff's strongest writing in an episode, which is to say one of the few times I've been able to go "I see what you did there and I like it."
But. Guys.
The "big shock?"
That was what they said about it, right? That it would be this major twist and we would never see it coming? But we all knew this was coming. Like to the extent that we were positive it wouldn't be this, because it was too predictable. Right? So it was not surprising. It was the single most anticlimactic thing that the Big Reveal possibly could have been.
And the thing is, as soon as I get a second to think about this without family around and stuff, I feel like I'm just going to break down and cry for Amy and Rory, because unless this big reveal is a red herring, it means that Rory and Amy, these beautiful wonderful people whom I love, have only ever existed for River Song's plotline. And no, that doesn't negate all the things they've done, but it absolutely does mean that Steven Moffat is an even sloppier one-track-minded writer than I previously thought him to be. Because if this is true then every step of the Ponds' journey thus far has led here. To parenthood. To giving birth to Steven Moffat's baby, River Song. And the thing is, this isn't even Moff hate, it's writer hate. To have two MAIN characters exist at this level and for this long with the ulterior motive of giving your ~favorite~ character a more ~interesting~ story is shameful. It would be shameful if RTD did it.But he wouldn't.
And it doesn't even make any sense. I like River Song fine, I really do. I didn't before, but I really have come around to her in a big way and I think she's a cool character. But at what cost? How many inconsistencies? How many sacrificed storylines? (What could Amy and Rory have been if they didn't need to be this?) I get that the Moff is all about the timey wimey, but this would be too much even for me. Of all the times River has met Amy and Rory before now, she didn't recognize them? Not until today, when Rory showed up and she got all "...oh, yes...hello...we've met..." Please. When Amy saw River in the Angel episodes, River acted like she didn't know her at all. And, right, I'm sure in the fall we'll get some half-baked "explanation" about why River has to pretend she doesn't know her parents when she sees them in her future or their past or whatever. But even if that's the case and the inconsistency isn't who recognizes who, the inconsistency is in her very core character. Would she see Amy and be all "oh hello I'm Doctor River Song" as opposed to being like "oh hey Amy lol spooooileeeers?" Would she really? And what about when Rory never existed? If Rory never existed, neither did she, for that period of time. I guess they got around that by having Rory wake up as a Roman immediately after getting wiped out. ~Timey wimey.~ And if that's the case, did that only happen for River, too? Is Rory only in the whole s5 finale so she could be in the same finale? And what about Amy's perfect, beautiful speech at the beginning of this episode, about Melody's father being strong and brave and the Last Centurion and that he would always come for her? Rory won't. The Doctor will. So Amy lied. To her daughter. Who by the way will have minimal interaction time with her parents since this is likely Amy's and Rory's last season and it's halfway over, but that doesn't matter because Amy and Rory only exist to give River Song a more interesting existence anyway. It can never be about Amy and Rory being married or even being parents or even about their relationship to River. This is all only happening so River can be the daughter of companions - any companions - so her place in the Doctor's life is more interesting.
And what about Amy's and Rory's lives after this? So they've had this baby who is River Song, so they know that she doesn't die as a weapon baby or something, whoop-dee-doo. They also know that they apparently don't get to raise her. The Doctor gets that job, I guess. Because he met River when she was so young and he knew everything about her, I assume they spent a good bit of time together in her childhood years from what she's said, so how often is she away from home? Does she ever have a home with Amy and Rory? I would guess not, because otherwise she would know about the Doctor growing up, and he wouldn't be a strange man dropping out of the sky when she's "a young girl." And then in her middlish ages she spends all her time in jail or with the Doctor, and Amy and Rory are very young and the River we know is definitely not old enough for them to have already died naturally. So are they both dying at the end of this season, or do they have to give up Melody/River? Or does their daughter just basically not want to spend any time at home? And why should she, after all; they're not parents, just plot devices.
And as![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
iluvmusicals points out, River Song's story is like the Moff saying "I CAN WRITE THE BEST DOCTOR/COMPANION ROMANCE," but he can't. This is all wrong. It's wrong that River and the Doctor basically trick each other into their relationship at different points on their timelines, because that's not romantic and it's not natural, it's conniving and dark and frankly a little sickening. And I just can't think of a way that the parents/daughter relationship can end as anything other than a travesty; Rose was going to choose Ten over Jackie in Doomsday, but after she had traveled with him and fallen in love with him properly, and before that point she was always pretty damn good about thinking about her family. I realize the whole family thing won't bother some people as much, but it's really important to me, so. Amelia Jessica Pond has been through hell and Rory has been through 2,000 lonely years for her, and they are beautiful, and they deserve a storyline that's about them and they deserve a better ending than the one they're going to get. And, again pointed out by Rachel, River Song definitely deserves a better beginning than this.
Also, when River dies in the library, if she=Melody=girl in the astronaut suit=regenerating girl in the alley, why the hell couldn't she have regenerated? If she's part Time Lord or whatever. Because Ten was all "I can regenerate" and she was like "yeah but don't yet," but she could have, too. Right? So did she just...not regenerate, because "the day that he doesn't know me will kill me?" That's fucking suicide. Nice strong female character, Moff.
I don't hate River Song and I don't hate series six and I don't hate Doctor Who and I don't even hate Steven Moffat. I didn't even hate the episode! I loved the episode! It was brilliant! But I hate that this happened. I hate that, of all the possibilities for these four characters in this series, this is what they've come to. I hate that I'm this upset and I hate that I feel stupid for caring this much, because I never felt stupid for caring about the characters in Old New Who, because I never was made to feel like I cared more than the writers, the producers, the directors. I don't know.
Also, she's Amy and Rory's baby but she's part Time Lord because they had sex on the TARDIS? So...the stupid time head joke was actually, like, a hint? Seriously is no one else bothered by that kind of writing?
The thing is, you guys, I really really freaking loved this episode. Like...you guys. Amy was a real character, she was almost s5 Amy, I loved her so much. And Rory continues to be a perfect husband and a perfect character. I just...guys I can't, I just love him so much. Everything he did in this episode was flawless to me. And Eleven was practically Ten, so obviously I was loving that. And it was epic and beautiful and really I think some of the Moff's strongest writing in an episode, which is to say one of the few times I've been able to go "I see what you did there and I like it."
But. Guys.
The "big shock?"
That was what they said about it, right? That it would be this major twist and we would never see it coming? But we all knew this was coming. Like to the extent that we were positive it wouldn't be this, because it was too predictable. Right? So it was not surprising. It was the single most anticlimactic thing that the Big Reveal possibly could have been.
And the thing is, as soon as I get a second to think about this without family around and stuff, I feel like I'm just going to break down and cry for Amy and Rory, because unless this big reveal is a red herring, it means that Rory and Amy, these beautiful wonderful people whom I love, have only ever existed for River Song's plotline. And no, that doesn't negate all the things they've done, but it absolutely does mean that Steven Moffat is an even sloppier one-track-minded writer than I previously thought him to be. Because if this is true then every step of the Ponds' journey thus far has led here. To parenthood. To giving birth to Steven Moffat's baby, River Song. And the thing is, this isn't even Moff hate, it's writer hate. To have two MAIN characters exist at this level and for this long with the ulterior motive of giving your ~favorite~ character a more ~interesting~ story is shameful. It would be shameful if RTD did it.
And it doesn't even make any sense. I like River Song fine, I really do. I didn't before, but I really have come around to her in a big way and I think she's a cool character. But at what cost? How many inconsistencies? How many sacrificed storylines? (What could Amy and Rory have been if they didn't need to be this?) I get that the Moff is all about the timey wimey, but this would be too much even for me. Of all the times River has met Amy and Rory before now, she didn't recognize them? Not until today, when Rory showed up and she got all "...oh, yes...hello...we've met..." Please. When Amy saw River in the Angel episodes, River acted like she didn't know her at all. And, right, I'm sure in the fall we'll get some half-baked "explanation" about why River has to pretend she doesn't know her parents when she sees them in her future or their past or whatever. But even if that's the case and the inconsistency isn't who recognizes who, the inconsistency is in her very core character. Would she see Amy and be all "oh hello I'm Doctor River Song" as opposed to being like "oh hey Amy lol spooooileeeers?" Would she really? And what about when Rory never existed? If Rory never existed, neither did she, for that period of time. I guess they got around that by having Rory wake up as a Roman immediately after getting wiped out. ~Timey wimey.~ And if that's the case, did that only happen for River, too? Is Rory only in the whole s5 finale so she could be in the same finale? And what about Amy's perfect, beautiful speech at the beginning of this episode, about Melody's father being strong and brave and the Last Centurion and that he would always come for her? Rory won't. The Doctor will. So Amy lied. To her daughter. Who by the way will have minimal interaction time with her parents since this is likely Amy's and Rory's last season and it's halfway over, but that doesn't matter because Amy and Rory only exist to give River Song a more interesting existence anyway. It can never be about Amy and Rory being married or even being parents or even about their relationship to River. This is all only happening so River can be the daughter of companions - any companions - so her place in the Doctor's life is more interesting.
And what about Amy's and Rory's lives after this? So they've had this baby who is River Song, so they know that she doesn't die as a weapon baby or something, whoop-dee-doo. They also know that they apparently don't get to raise her. The Doctor gets that job, I guess. Because he met River when she was so young and he knew everything about her, I assume they spent a good bit of time together in her childhood years from what she's said, so how often is she away from home? Does she ever have a home with Amy and Rory? I would guess not, because otherwise she would know about the Doctor growing up, and he wouldn't be a strange man dropping out of the sky when she's "a young girl." And then in her middlish ages she spends all her time in jail or with the Doctor, and Amy and Rory are very young and the River we know is definitely not old enough for them to have already died naturally. So are they both dying at the end of this season, or do they have to give up Melody/River? Or does their daughter just basically not want to spend any time at home? And why should she, after all; they're not parents, just plot devices.
And as
iluvmusicals points out, River Song's story is like the Moff saying "I CAN WRITE THE BEST DOCTOR/COMPANION ROMANCE," but he can't. This is all wrong. It's wrong that River and the Doctor basically trick each other into their relationship at different points on their timelines, because that's not romantic and it's not natural, it's conniving and dark and frankly a little sickening. And I just can't think of a way that the parents/daughter relationship can end as anything other than a travesty; Rose was going to choose Ten over Jackie in Doomsday, but after she had traveled with him and fallen in love with him properly, and before that point she was always pretty damn good about thinking about her family. I realize the whole family thing won't bother some people as much, but it's really important to me, so. Amelia Jessica Pond has been through hell and Rory has been through 2,000 lonely years for her, and they are beautiful, and they deserve a storyline that's about them and they deserve a better ending than the one they're going to get. And, again pointed out by Rachel, River Song definitely deserves a better beginning than this.Also, when River dies in the library, if she=Melody=girl in the astronaut suit=regenerating girl in the alley, why the hell couldn't she have regenerated? If she's part Time Lord or whatever. Because Ten was all "I can regenerate" and she was like "yeah but don't yet," but she could have, too. Right? So did she just...not regenerate, because "the day that he doesn't know me will kill me?" That's fucking suicide. Nice strong female character, Moff.
I don't hate River Song and I don't hate series six and I don't hate Doctor Who and I don't even hate Steven Moffat. I didn't even hate the episode! I loved the episode! It was brilliant! But I hate that this happened. I hate that, of all the possibilities for these four characters in this series, this is what they've come to. I hate that I'm this upset and I hate that I feel stupid for caring this much, because I never felt stupid for caring about the characters in Old New Who, because I never was made to feel like I cared more than the writers, the producers, the directors. I don't know.
Also, she's Amy and Rory's baby but she's part Time Lord because they had sex on the TARDIS? So...the stupid time head joke was actually, like, a hint? Seriously is no one else bothered by that kind of writing?
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no subject
Date: 2011-06-05 04:52 am (UTC)There are so many things that I am upset about and squicked out by and pissed off about, listing them would go over LJ's word limit, so I'm just going to have to deal with the fact that I'm not a Doctor Who fan right now and just stop talking about it.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-05 04:59 am (UTC)Also I think I really loved the last two-parter which I think was pretty fandom-dividing, so...it's just all so complicated. REMEMBER WHEN EVERYTHING WAS FIRES OF POMPEII AND NOTHING HURT?
no subject
Date: 2011-06-05 05:49 am (UTC)I agree with everything. I realized it today too that Amy and Rory were just like plot devices and that angers me because I love them and they had that epic love story that only led to the creation of River.
(ngl River is just bleh to me. It's Moffat's ideal girl, but completely unrelatable. I don't hate her though. I don't like hating companions. )
This episode was entertaining in a shallow way but if I analyze it, it saddens me.
I REALLY hope that Moffat will give the Ponds a brilliant, wonderful, HAPPY exit.
(lol at RTD giving his companions completely heartbreaking and emotional exits.)
no subject
Date: 2011-06-05 05:59 am (UTC)Also, when River dies in the library, if she=Melody=girl in the astronaut suit=regenerating girl in the alley, why the hell couldn't she have regenerated? If she's part Time Lord or whatever. Because Ten was all "I can regenerate" and she was like "yeah but don't yet," but she could have, too. Right? So did she just...not regenerate, because "the day that he doesn't know me will kill me?" That's fucking suicide. Nice strong female character, Moff.
I haven't rewatched these in a while but I'm pretty sure she implies that he wouldn't be able to regenerate, so I guess she wouldn't be able to either if she actually can regenerate. (lol who even knows)
Aside from that, yeah IDEK. RIVER IS THEIR BABY was seeming more and more like the obvious conclusion so I can't say I was super shocked or anything but I still don't really like the idea. Like you mentioned, it means Amy and Rory basically exist to serve River's story, and also, just... what? So do they not raise River? What? What even. It's too timey-wimey and frankly it doesn't even make sense. It's not the kind of reveal that clicks and then oooooh everything falls into place! The only things that fell into place was shit from the beginning of this episode, if you missed the "Melody Pond=River Song" thing. River meeting Amy never felt like River meeting her mom, etc. I guess the problem is that this is still to come -- maybe the first time we see River meet young-Amy she'll react more like she JUST MET THE 21-YEAR-OLD VERSION OF HER MOM, because she sure didn't in anything we've seen so far. And Moffat trying to retcon in "she was just pretending!" about River not recognizing Rory in TPO/TBB is lazy. It feels like he made this up on the spot after searching Tumblr for theories.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-05 06:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-06-15 04:41 am (UTC)I can't even describe HOW MUCH I LOVE RORY & AMY. Karen and Arthur (and Matty) were tremendous in the ep.